locking the converter

[Wicked65]

I was just wondering. I have read people talking about a switch to lock the converter in a 4R70W. Is this something i need to do? It will have a manual VB. Do i need a lockup converter or non-lockup? I really dont get the whole locking converter thing, so some explination would be great. Because the guy at lentech told me that a trans brake and lockup converter can conflict and cause problems in the trani.

[DirtyD0g]

Your manual valvebody should explain what needs to be done. The huge problem with locking trhe converter via a switch is that the solenoid is not designed for constant 12 volt. It gets a 12 volt signal to switch and then drops to 5 volts to hold. Constant 12v will fry it. There is no purpose in a 4r70w without a lockup converter.
Alan

[Wicked65]

is there some way to regulate the voltage?

[DirtyD0g]

It would require some sort of device. I don't build electronics so I don't know.
Alan

[Bossman]

You would think there would be some sort of workaround since people are buying the full manual valve bodies that no longer have computer control.
Do these run the converter unlocked?
I just picked up a PA transbrake valve body and was planning on running this un-lock/lock switch. So I really hope there is a solution.

[DirtyD0g]

You would think there would be some sort of workaround since people are buying the full manual valve bodies that no longer have computer control.
Do these run the converter unlocked?
I just picked up a PA transbrake valve body and was planning on running this un-lock/lock switch. So I really hope there is a solution.

What did the instructions in the valvebody say?

[Bossman]

Don't know, I haven't received it yet.

[Wicked65]

well, post it up when you get them

[Bossman]

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1772/painstructionsqy8.th.jpg (http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=painstructionsqy8.jpg)

Well there ya go.. a mighty fine pamphlet of information.

Apparently "computer pressure regulation is retained". This is what happens when you buy stuff before fully researching it. I dont' have a computer, hence the need for a manual valve body. Maybe dirtydog can make it work with some sort of vacuum operated regulation.

[Mario]

[quote=Bossman;34928

Well there ya go.. a mighty fine pamphlet of information.

Apparently "computer pressure regulation is retained". This is what happens when you buy stuff before fully researching it. I dont' have a computer, hence the need for a manual valve body. Maybe dirtydog can make it work with some sort of vacuum operated regulation.[/quote]

I have this manual valve body and it has no computer controls.

Where did you read this "computer pressure regulation is retained"?

In fact the instructions you posted state this:


"This valve body requires no computer hookups. If your
vehicle’s computer controls this transmission you must
disconnect it at the transmission by disconnecting the
plug on the rear side of the transmission."

I think you are looking at the wrong valve body. Look for AODE valve body PA45302 on this page:

http://www.performanceautomatic.com/downloads.htm

Hope this helps you. If you have any questions feel free to ask me. I've had this valve body for almost 2 years now. And yes, I lock up my converter all the time with no problems whatsoever (on a seperate switch).

[Bossman]

This is the front of the pamphlet/instructions.
Hope you hang around click click a bunch, 'cause I'm gonna need some help later on.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/96/pa2bw1.th.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pa2bw1.jpg)

[Mario]

This is the front of the pamphlet/instructions.
Hope you hang around click click a bunch, 'cause I'm gonna need some help later on.


OK. I see the confusion. PA makes two valve bodies for the AODE. The part numbers are:

PA45302E : which retains the electronics (computer controls). I guess that is what the "E" at the end signifies.
(this one features a transbrake but is not a manual valve body).

and

PA45302M : this one is a full manual valve body. I guess the "M" at the end of the part number is meant to signify it as the manual version.
(this one also features the transbrake).

You want the PA45302M (which is the one I have). Like this:

http://www.performanceautomatic.com/valvebodies_aodefullman.htm

I'll be around if you need help.

[DirtyD0g]

I have this manual valve body and it has no computer controls.

Where did you read this "computer pressure regulation is retained"?

In fact the instructions you posted state this:


"This valve body requires no computer hookups. If your
vehicle’s computer controls this transmission you must
disconnect it at the transmission by disconnecting the
plug on the rear side of the transmission."

I think you are looking at the wrong valve body. Look for AODE valve body PA45302 on this page:

http://www.performanceautomatic.com/downloads.htm

Hope this helps you. If you have any questions feel free to ask me. I've had this valve body for almost 2 years now. And yes, I lock up my converter all the time with no problems whatsoever (on a seperate switch).

I can make it work with the transgo aode-3 it says specifically NO Computer required and uses a vacuum modulator in the epc hole.
Alan

[SOHCSTANG]

OK. I see the confusion. PA makes two valve bodies for the AODE. The part numbers are:

PA45302E : which retains the electronics (computer controls). I guess that is what the "E" at the end signifies.
(this one features a transbrake but is not a manual valve body).

and

PA45302M : this one is a full manual valve body. I guess the "M" at the end of the part number is meant to signify it as the manual version.
(this one also features the transbrake).

You want the PA45302M (which is the one I have). Like this:

http://www.performanceautomatic.com/valvebodies_aodefullman.htm

I'll be around if you need help.
Just an FYI...PA now only makes 1 transbrake equipped valvebody for the AOD-E/4R70W...it is the newest style as seen in post #16 of this thread: http://www.clickclickracing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5133&page=2

I found this out while visiting their booth at the PRI Convention. They even admitted that their website has not been updated in a long time. They used to make 2 transbrake equipped valvebodies like you mention, but not anymore.

[Bossman]

Well, I thought I read the the line pressure was already set. But I have no idea how to even tell. I got this off Ebay, and it is new, but it was bought in 2006 and was the last one they made. So it's a discontinued version. I just dont' know what is missing.


http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/3133/dsc06158vd4.th.jpg (http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc06158vd4.jpg)

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5471/dsc06159rt6.th.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc06159rt6.jpg)

[SOHCSTANG]

Well my first question is...where is the transbrake solenoid? Is it the small item in the second picture with the wire attached? The first pic looks very much like the aluminum plate on the new design...I guess they retained that part of the design. Go here to see pics of the newer style...click "View Additional Images" http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_413405_-1

[DirtyD0g]

Transbrakes on 4R70W's have been nothing but problems. I spent alot of time on the valvebodies and see how it can be done properly. That valvebody just doesn't accept changes well. A transbrake that releases slow is worthless. At this time I cannot suggest a transbrake for a 4R70W transmission.
Alan

[SOHCSTANG]

BTW, the ne PA AODE/4R70W transbrake part number is PA45304.

[Bossman]

Transbrakes on 4R70W's have been nothing but problems. I spent alot of time on the valvebodies and see how it can be done properly. That valvebody just doesn't accept changes well. A transbrake that releases slow is worthless. At this time I cannot suggest a transbrake for a 4R70W transmission.
Alan

Awesome to hear.. glad I spent the money on this thing:(:(:(:shock::mad:

[SilverFox]

SOme thoughts.

I am looking for a person to test a manual toruqe converter lockup switch, on and off, and it has pulse width modulation so that it is not constant 12v - rumored to possibly cause damage to the TCC noid.

lastly, the PA manual VB pictured above shows it has a noid and the words TRANSBRAKE on it.....however, I only see ONE noid.....in the past one noid was for 4th and one was for TB.....seems that MAYBE, they combined the noid?

confused on that one.

[Bossman]

I can take some more pics. I'm all for helping out since I'm seriously gonna need a lot of attention in the coming months once I start with the transmission part of my project.

[SOHCSTANG]

SOme thoughts.

I am looking for a person to test a manual toruqe converter lockup switch, on and off, and it has pulse width modulation so that it is not constant 12v - rumored to possibly cause damage to the TCC noid.

lastly, the PA manual VB pictured above shows it has a noid and the words TRANSBRAKE on it.....however, I only see ONE noid.....in the past one noid was for 4th and one was for TB.....seems that MAYBE, they combined the noid?

confused on that one.

Which picture are you talking about (post number?)

[BobCat]

SOme thoughts.

I am looking for a person to test a manual toruqe converter lockup switch, on and off, and it has pulse width modulation so that it is not constant 12v - rumored to possibly cause damage to the TCC noid.

lastly, the PA manual VB pictured above shows it has a noid and the words TRANSBRAKE on it.....however, I only see ONE noid.....in the past one noid was for 4th and one was for TB.....seems that MAYBE, they combined the noid?

confused on that one.


I have an 04 Cobra in the shop right now that I converted to a 4r70w w/ a manual valve body w/a lockup converter that I would be willing to try it on. If you need a test subject let me know on here or on STLMustangs.com

[SilverFox]

Bobcat, I will get one soldered together, it is raw.
I need one bit of info yet to complete the elecronics of the unit....how LONG is the period of time from 12v initial engagment to the point where it drops down to lower voltage. I have a guess of 10th of second for now.....but that is why I am testing :)

pm me

[BobCat]

I'm not sure of the time delay but I can get a datalog of a factor equipped Auto car if you would like.

[SilverFox]

And that would be super.
It hits 12v then backs down to like 4.5v to maintain LU.
I just need a TIME intervall that this happens to calibrate the electronics of it.

[Wicked65]

Just wondering if you guys ever got a wirering setup for locking the converter and then droping the volts down? How long is it supposed to be at 12v?

[SilverFox]

I have the specs to build one, however I have not seen any failure of the solenoid to warrenty it's production. I have not had anyone complain about the bang into lockup either.

But if I see the need for it, I can build a few. I am lacking the time interval (ramp rate) of the stock system to base my calculations on.

[Wicked65]

Well, i just wanted to make sure. We are swaping to the 4r in my brothers 98gt and i didnt want to burn anything up when locking the converter. I thought it sounded weird that it would go lower then 12v. But what do i know.

[SilverFox]

CORRECTION
to state again, the LU Noid recieves 12v then falls to 4-6v to hold.
Apply speed/pressure is regulated by the VB and offices.

[Wicked65]

Do you honestly see it as being a problem? if it was your car, would you do the mod to make the volts ramp up? Also, in his 98 gt, we have a 02 4r70w. I think he has the drive shaft out of the same year. Do we need a spacer or is it a direct fit?

[Mario]

I lock up my torque converter all the time with a switch. Once you drive around with it for a week you will learn how to lock it up without experiencing the bang. You have to be at part to light throttle and a certain rpm depending on your stall. You will quickly get a hang of it. I can lock mine up and the passengers can't even tell anything happend. Only I can barely feel it lockup because I know I just did it. Also always unlock the torque converter before making downshift to 3rd or upshift to 4th. Believe me anyone can get the hang of this.

[SilverFox]

Well it seems I jump the gun here.....the true answer is it gets 12v at the start and then backs off to around 4-5...however...the post where I said it ramps up is not the truth...not sure where I got that idea from. APPLY speed and pressure is regulated by the VB and offices, the solenoid simply is ON or OFF.

As I said, of my customers running a MVB, non of the LU solenoids have died with live 12v.

Would I make the mod to my car......if I had a test vehical then sure.

[Rio96GT]

I lock up my torque converter all the time with a switch. Once you drive around with it for a week you will learn how to lock it up without experiencing the bang. You have to be at part to light throttle and a certain rpm depending on your stall. You will quickly get a hang of it. I can lock mine up and the passengers can't even tell anything happend. Only I can barely feel it lockup because I know I just did it. Also always unlock the torque converter before making downshift to 3rd or upshift to 4th. Believe me anyone can get the hang of this.

How did you set this up? I was thinking of running a ground to the torque converter clutch solenoid with a momentary switch controlling it. That way its just 12v for a moment and not constant so the solenoid wouldnt fry.

[SilverFox]

You want your LU to be ON, not hold a button for it to be on...

[Mario]

How did you set this up? I was thinking of running a ground to the torque converter clutch solenoid with a momentary switch controlling it. That way its just 12v for a moment and not constant so the solenoid wouldnt fry.

I have not had a problem with the solenoid frying with 12 volts. I use the higher impedance solenoids found in the later 4R70W transmissions. I will have to look for my notes. I forgot the wire color codes to give specific instructions on how I wired it (did it over 2 years ago and has been trouble free for over 20,000 miles).

I can tell you that I set it up similar to how it comes from the factory.
The solenoid is constantly powered when vehicle is running. The solenoid then will only require a ground to complete the circuit and turn it on. This is how the PCM turns the solenoid on and off. By having an internal driver inside the PCM it can ground the solenoid to activate it.
(This is similar to how the fuel injectors work. Injectors are constantly powered and the PCM provides an internal ground to activate them).
The only difference is that I have the ground on a switch and I do the job of the PCM. I flip the switch to complete the circuit (provide the ground).

Anyway I have driven as far as 50 miles to the racetrack with the torque converter locked up at 70 mph the whole way and never experienced any solenoid failure.

[SilverFox]

^^^never had any issues either....thats why I havn't been on task.

[BADASS03SVT]

no issue's here either...been on a 12v switch for 2 years now..prob about 2000 miles on the trans