Get my car some alpo...

[slowstang]

cause its a dog.

1992 hatch...

302 stock short block with 9.7 to 1 compression
unknown cam (I think the specs are close to the e-cam)
ported edelbrock performers - 1.90 intake 1.60 exhaust valves
edelbrock performer rpm2 intake
75mm throttle body
80mm maf
Anderson powerpipe
1 3/4 longtubes, prochamber, mac produmps
AOD with 3500 stall
3.73s
26in tall nitto drag radials
full fuel system - twin pumps, 42lb injectors, rails, and regulator

Well I know with my setup that it shouldnt make power down low but damn. The car dead hooks on the street and bogs down then struggles to recover until over 3500rpm. The converter "flashes" up to 3200rpm and the car feels great above 3500. As the car sits I would say its in the mid to low 12s at about 110mph but the 60 feels like a 1.8-1.9...

I know my tune is off in the PMS in the low rpm range but how the hell do you tune an auto car for low speeds like the 2000-3000rpm range?

Would improper lifter preload kill low end power if i have too much preload?
Should I man up and get a set of 4.10s?

Andrew

[slowstang]

Doh, wrong section...please move to engine tech.

[rel3rd]

The converter "flashes" up to 3200rpm and the car feels great above 3500. As the car sits I would say its in the mid to low 12s at about 110mph but the 60 feels like a 1.8-1.9...

I know my tune is off in the PMS in the low rpm range but how the hell do you tune an auto car for low speeds like the 2000-3000rpm range?


42's are way damn big for that...you probably can't even get them to cycle that low efficiently for a nice spray pattern. I'd have 19's or 24's in it, at the most...Everything you list in your combo is for higher rpm, or UN-natural aspirated horsepower IMO.

anyway...From that above description, I'd say add as much low/mid rpm timing as it will take...which should up the low & midrange power. If it doesn't, you'll need to feed the dog what it wants...a looser converter and/or more gear...

It probably doesn't help having an unknown cam either though.

[RdRunnr]

And just to add to Bob's point, how was the unknown cam installed? If it was installed wrong that would kill low end power too. Also definitely add as much timing down low as you can like he said.

[slowstang]

The 42's are a bit extreme but I wanted to get the car running for the least money spent as possible. I already had the 42's and matching MAF so i figured i would give it a try. I have the timing standalone come on at 2000rpm and the timing is at 42 degrees at that point...by 3500 I have it ramped back down to 30 degrees and about 28 the rest of the way.

I hear ya on the 42's...I'm sure they can be trimmed down, but definitely not the ideal choice...which you already know.

TIMING, is way too low...30* at 3500 is ultra conservative on a NA car...I'd bet you can add 10* across the board, if not more, for a nice gain. I'd shoot for about 36* as my final number, with it being higher leading to that point...

Heck, We had more timing everywhere you mention, in my old purple car with 18psi of boost added into the mix... ;)

[slowstang]

Bob, you edited my post lol

You think adding more timing will help? With my old motor setup I ran about the same timing curve with 28 degrees being at peak power...any more then 28 the car lost power. The old setup did have a more radical cam and a point more of compression so the car could have been detonating as I added timing.

So, start about 50ish degrees of timing at 2k and ramp down to 34-36 at 5500-6000?

I'll give that a shot the next time I take the car out and let you guys know how it reacts

Thanks again!

[slowstang]

I took the car out this morning and it feels better...but its also 30 degrees out so how cant it feel good.

I'm up to 50 degrees timing at 2k and ramp it down to 34 from 5000rpm on. I have the fuel standalone coming on at 2000rpm now and added some fuel to the low end. The car feels alot better...now its time to take it to the track :)

[illdrag]

And just to add to Bob's point, how was the unknown cam installed? If it was installed wrong that would kill low end power too. Also definitely add as much timing down low as you can like he said.


the cam is installed properly...it is my old motor

[RdRunnr]

How did you install it? Did you degree it or install it straight up?

[rel3rd]

Bob, you edited my post lol


WTH???? :confused:

Wrong button, I guess...LOL...plus I'm old all the time, drunk half of the time. ;)

anyway...in a nutshell...
Keep adding timing til it slows down Andrew.

I'd kick it up some more in the 3500-4000 range and not level it down to desired total until close to 6 grand...or whatever your max rpm/shift point is. That (3500-4000) is where you seem to be lacking, so that's where you should be tweaking the most. JMO.

Spence told me a long time ago..."give the engine what it wants"...

That's one of the best pieces of advice anyone's ever given me.

Another great tip:
Tune FUEL OR TIMING until it's dialed in, NOT BOTH. Trying to do both at the same time (especially "street-tuning") is counter-productive and wastes a lot of time going backwards IMHO...Ballpark your fuel, then concentrate on the timing, then go back to fine tune fuel.

Every setup reacts different to the same mods, and when the setup is totally changed, like yours is/was, you need to start from scratch and find out exactly what THIS SETUP likes.

[slowstang]

I got the tune in the ballpark somewhat. The car did respond to the extra timing very well...

I took it to the track tonight in the freezing conditions and I couldnt get it too hook on the 245/50 nittos.

1.84 60ft
12.31 at 112.55

1.99 60ft
12.52 at 112.23

1.98 60ft
12.41 at 112.70

With the car spinning I didnt get the chance to look at the wideband in the low range. I may take it to Cecil on the 3rd for the Saturday test and tune so I can get some traction :) I'll play with the timing some more like you recommended and see if I can get a 12.1 out of it.

[DynoJoe]

Andrew, i got a set of 19's if yah wanna try em. Let me know:-D

[illdrag]

How did you install it? Did you degree it or install it straight up?


i put on my pirate costume complete with eye patch and threw it across the shop like a javlin...it landed perfecly in the block not nicking one cam bearing
:rolleyes:

[DynoJoe]

That's because it is a type RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR !!!!:p

[rel3rd]

i put on my pirate costume complete with eye patch and threw it across the shop like a javlin...it landed perfecly in the block not nicking one cam bearing
:rolleyes:

so...you're saying without the costume, you'd have missed? :spit:

[illdrag]

hard to say not knowing bob but if i had to guess i would say yarrrrrrrrrr:mob:

[DynoJoe]

hard to say not knowing bob but if i had to guess i would say yarrrrrrrrrr:mob:


:rotfl:

[Turbo331]

So a pirate walks into a bar witha steering wheel attached to his belt......lol